Interview with Albert Suryo Sarman
By Eden Steven and Yenny Chandra

Albertus Suryo Wicaksono is a social worker and a researcher in the area of human rights, poverty, and plurarism especially in rural areas. He is also a distinguished activist both in domestic and international.

Note: The opinions reflected in this interview are solely of the interviewee’s and do not necessarily represent FICA Cross Point’s

Cross Point (CP): Can you please kindly introduce yourself? Albertus Suryo Wicaksono (ASW): My name is Albertus Suryo Wicaksono. I was born in Jakarta, grew up in many places, and interacted with people from different regions. My education background is as written in my CV.

CP: Can you tell us about the activities you are currently doing or NGOs you are currently joining?

ASW: I became aware of the term NGO for the first time in 1997, but I have been working with grassroots community since 1989. At the time, the popular term was marginal society, but now it is replaced with the term grassroots. I served at church since 1989 and then started to work with grassroots and learned a lot of things. Then I knew about NGO when I was teaching at Ursula high school in Serpong in 1997.

CP: According to your experience in NGO and working closely with grassroots, what is the urgency faced by Indonesia today?

ASW: This question is difficult because the answer will be different depending upon one’s point of view. Grassroots, politicians, educators, and economists will have different answers.

CP: How about from your perspective?

ASW: I am going to tell you a little bit of background to start with. There are numerous complaints in the grassroot level. Some people complain about education while others complain about the economy, politics, or justice. From all of that, I think that the most urgent thing is social justice. I mentioned about economic justice yesterday that the government, investors, entrepreneurs are welcomed to do business but please pay attention to the lower class people. Although some production processes have been computerized, human involvement is still needed to operate the computer. Human rights are often overlooked by business people.

CP: Could you give some examples?

ASW: There are a lot of examples on the issue of economic justice. I mentioned yesterday about a woman who was going to give birth, but the hospital she went to was not willing to help her unless she had paid a few million rupiahs beforehand. Despite the woman’s pain, the hospital still did not want to accept her before she secured the money. It was the closest hospital for the woman, and it was supposed to help the woman first and worry about the finances later. Although in the end she was helped, the process was inhumane. A woman who arrives with her husband by car and leaves a credit card will receive a different treatment. It is simply unfair. Another example is about access to public policy. The other day, my friends and I went to the legislative branch to fight for the policy of antidiscrimination of ethnicity, religion, race, inter-group matters (SARA) and they asked if we had money to pay for it. There is no equal right for elite groups and grassroots to convey their aspirations. Farmers, for example, could not ask for a certain price for their crops. The policy made will be thrust to the grassroots while they do not have access to communicate their aspirations.

CP: So, are farmers one of the most oppressed people?

ASW: Yes

CP: So, what are the steps that can be taken to continuously appeal to the government to change its working culture?

ASW: That is a good question. If the government does not open their eyes to see the hungry people and shift their focus from hoarding wealth for personal gain, something terrible will happen. That is why, I think, church has to be optimal in voicing prophetic words. It is a must.

CP: So, is it correct to say that in Indonesia, religion is considered as something that can bring influence to the public?

ASW: Yes. I am worried that the grassroots’ patience will run out. As a Christian, my friends and I accompany them and share Christian values. When they are angry, we talked to them to calm them down. If we let it be, they will burst out. I mentioned about revolution yesterday. This is what I am worried about. People are hungry. How can they think clearly when they are hungry? For them, the important thing is how to get money for their sick children or to finance their children’s education because school is expensive, etc. In the end, they will end up as beggars or robbers. Criminality will rise. I see that the role of church is really significant. I believe its role is like a cross, which has vertical and horizontal elements. Church should pronounce prophetic voice in the structural level and in the cultural level.

CP: When you mention church’s role, do you mean that as individuals Christians have to be involved in the government or church as an institution should try to influence the government?

ASW: Both have to be done. That is why we have high hopes for people like Mr. Josef Adreanus Nae Soi who worked for the government to be salt and light. Christians who works as bureaucrats should not go with the flow. If they are given an envelope with money, they should refuse it. This is only a small thing but if it can be done consistently, it can go a long way.

CP: How good has the church played its role observing that the grassroots are close to revolution?

ASW: From what I have observed, the church is already doing quite good. Its prophetic voice is loud, either as institutions, such as Bishops’ Conference of Indonesia (KWI) and the Indonesian Protestant Churches Council (PGI), or as individuals who work among the grassroots. However it is difficult if the government still shut their eyes and close their ears. Church has played its part. I have also received a lot of help from the churches in Indonesia.

CP: Can you provide examples of the kind of help that was given?

ASW: They help in form of money, facilities, transportations, and communications. They give money for gas, clothes, milk for the baby, and food for the children. So churches are already doing well.

CP: Are those donations ever perceived by the grassroots as efforts to evangelize them?

ASW: Whenever I am among the grassroots, I never mention the fact that I am with the church. During yesterday’s discussion, somebody asked whether I have ever told the grassroots where I am from. I usually go to the non-Christian community because I think that becoming God’s witness cannot be done in the church. Our role is to go out of the church, to people who are non-Christians. Becoming a witness does not mean saying that I am from this or that church when I bring donation. When we go there to bring donation, in the end people will understand. They will understand that the Holy Spirit is present in the midst of them. There were few experiences where I did not say that I am Christian, but after a while, they opened up and said that they have relatives who also go to church. Then we started to have a conversation.

CP: Is the thirst for education a big issue in the grassroot level?

ASW: Yes, especially in isolated villages. One has to walk for tens of kilometers to go to school in those villages. . School starts at 7 am, and it is about 10 kilometers to go from their houses to the school. They have to walk and go through mountain. Could you imagine what time they need to wake up? What time they arrive at home? What time they go to sleep? Do they have time to study? They still have to help their parents to find food for their cattle.

CP: Is there any effort from the government to help?

ASW: I did not see it.

CP: How about from private institutions?

ASW: I have an idea to invite them to do a program. They can experiment with a teaching method, to make a continuous program, such as an alternative school that accommodates those students who need to walk tens of kilometers to go to school. The place to do it is already available. I want to offer it to the closest local university. For example, if we want to hold it in Blitar, we can invite people from Surabaya to do a program about one or two months. But we haven’t solved the problem on how to talk with the department of education. They will certainly ask about the place that will be used as the school location since we will not use a regular school facility, and they will also inquire about the materials taught in the classrooms.

CP: Can you explain more? How can there be problems with the department of education?

ASW: If the program is held, the educators will miss their school. The curriculum might be the same but the method would be different. It is possible that the government version is 6 years for elementary school but we can modify it so that the material can be gone through in 1 year divided by 6, per 2 months. But I don’t know the reaction of the education ministry, I haven’t met them.

CP: Is it possible for scholarship programs to reach the grassroots?

ASW: It is very possible. I am very happy if there are friends or institutions that willing to help in education?

CP: Aren’t there a lot of people that helps in education?

ASW: I do not know for sure but most of them are education for empowering

CP: Is it like a vocational school?

ASW: Yes. I know there are some vocational schools but I never get in touch with them. Coincidently, in the places that I entered, there is not any NGO that works in education.

CP: I have a question that is a little bit out of topic. During the new order regime, we declared that we are able to fulfill our needs for rice by ourselves. But why is it these days that it seems that we are not able to do it anymore. Do you know why this happens? Our farmers seem to have enough skill and there fields are plentiful. Is it possible that this happens because the relationship between the businessmen and the farmers is not healthy so that our agricultural system is not good? So, how is the relationship between the farmers and the businessmen?

ASW: The farmers do not deal directly with the businessmen, but with the cooperative society. So in every village, there is a cooperative society. If you have a coconut field and it is harvest season, you bring it to the cooperative society. The cooperative society already has a set price for coconut. When I traveled around villages, the farmers are also confused on why the news said that there is a scarcity in rice even though they have a lot of rice. In year 2006, when the price of rice went up, rice is actually available; there is no scarcity in rice. So it is actually being politicized by some people, for example by The National Food Grain Authority of Indonesia (BULOG). They have their own agenda. The village people still eat rice.

CP: So, can the farmers sell their rice?

ASW: Yes, they can sell their rice. This is why they are confused on why the news reporting differently. They are people who are being used.

CP: Could you tell us about dreams of the people in grassroots for their next generation, such as what do they want their children to become?

ASW: Dreams like that exist. I can really feel it, but it is heartbreaking. Yesterday, I talked about the people who died because of poisonous food. Efforts from government or corporation are only in the form of volley balls and rackets. There are also a lot of things that happened in other places that are equally terrible that make them cannot dream anymore about the future. I am afraid that if they lose their patience, it will be disastrous. How they can have dreams when their children are hungry,. Eating has now become a rare luxury. My car will be full of clothes, milk, toys whenever I go to the villages. It is the only thing that I can do. And this does not happen only in the villages, but also in the middle of the city like Jakarta. It can be seen that people are being used. Little children have to sing on the streets for money. How about these children’s future? It is not a problem of us giving 100 or 200 rupiahs, there is more than that.

CP: It seems that our conscience and social awareness as a nation has faded.

ASW: Yes, it is true, our social responsibility and the genuine identity of this nation need to be questioned. That is why to function as a prophetic voice, church is very precise. Christians in the government has to fight all out, not following the flow. Hopefully, it is like that.

CP: What is your hope for us that are given chance to think freely and eat peacefully here?

ASW: This conference is very good because its foundation is from the bible. My hope is simple that the bible is really implemented to the society, to the outside. What has been dug here has to be contextualized, reflected upon, and then implemented to the real world. So, it does not stop with debates in the mailing list. Social work, church work must be real. There is a lot of good thinking, good theological thinking, but we should not stop at thoughts only.

CP: Do you have any messages for people that want to join in NGO later on? Is there anything that needs to be prepared?

ASW: It is necessary to have a good physique and willingness to obey God to work among the people. We must be ready physically because serving among the people does not have a regular hour. Knowledge in social science and applied technical skills will be useful because we can share them to the people. Sometimes, I bring a lot of motherboard to the villages and work with them to assemble simple things, teach them to edit pictures in computers. We gather together editing picture using used monitor.

CP: As the last question, what is your hope for Indonesia in the future?

ASW: I hope that the five principles of Indonesia (Pancasila) will be manifested. Although it seems idealistic, but I hope that we can see the progress.

CP: Thank you very much.

ASW: You’re welcome.

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