Interview with Melba Padilla Maggay, PhD
By Adrian Irwan and Sunny Tanuwidjaja

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Dr. Maggay is President of the Institute for Studies in Asian Church and Culture (ISACC), Manila, Philippines and a prominent writer on culture and theology.

Note: The opinions reflected in this interview are solely the interviewee’s and do not necessarily represent FICA Cross Point’s

Adrian/Sunny (A/S): Could you please start by sharing with us a little bit about your background, your work in the past, and probably what you are doing right now?

Melba (M): Basically I am more on the artistic side rather than the academic side, because I am a creative writer and also trained as a journalist. I never had real chance like much of the younger generation because immediately after graduation martial law was declared. So people in my generation did not have the kind of space to do that sort of things, and we had to wait until Marcos is gone.

A/S: How about your current and past work, probably in the last decade?

M: Personally, I had a spell of doing speech writing and things like that. And I did some part-time work with Intervarsity as a staff, because I always wanted to do ministry, except I also could not fit in to it, so I only worked there for three years. Then I was teaching for a while in the University for English Literature, and lecturing on communication theory and things like that. So for a while I was doing that along with ISAAC. ISAAC started very early as a response to martial law. I think since then I have been in and out of the leadership of ISAAC. When I did my PhD I had to step down and also because I wanted other people to provide leadership. So the past decade mainly has been with ISAAC also, doing research. And then in 2000 I assumed leadership all over again. When ISAAC is in crisis, I stepped in. I don’t think I would like to do it now. I am too old now. But that’s the way it is. For the past decade I have been mostly functioning as a social anthropologist and that as a writer. That means I do a lot of lecturing, being a resource person in many things, doing some consultancy as well, whether in behalf of ISAAC or outside of it. It’s more to the academic side for the last ten years. But come January, I want to go back more to the creative side. I have this novel in my head that hasn’t gotten written, because I am too preoccupied with other things.

A/S: You said just now that you worked for Intervarsity for three years, and if I’m not mistaken you could not fit in there. Can you please explain why?

M: The job description required campus management, helping the students to manage their fellowship. I got very bored with those things, although I like student work. I like talking, counseling, going alongside students and helping them. There’s a part of it that I’m quite good in doing, discipling students and so forth. But there’s a part of it also that I find……And also because in the Philippines, even if I am part-time I have five schools, and in those five schools I had about 30 on the average. And on top of that you have all these other non-Christian friends who are on the margins, and I am expected to know all their names so that you are able to pray for them. As a staff worker you should be able to pray for all the students. But the thing is I can hardly remember people’s names. I can remember their faces and circumstances, but names I find difficult. So I felt a little ashamed that I don’t remember the names, while other staff workers have long list of names and they pray for them. For me, when somebody comes to me, I pray for him/her immediately and when I remember I pray. I always get embarrassed when some student comes and say “thank you for praying for me and for your support”, and I had to think carefully when I prayed for this person. So I found it difficult because you had to deal with large numbers of people, and also because I am very introverted. The truth is, part of the difficulties of my life is that I always had very public roles, but at the same time I am very introverted. I really don’t like being upfront. It is just over the years I have always been somehow having a public function. But if you’re introverted you had to spend as much time being in private as being in public. You have to nourish your inner life much more, because the extroverts get their energy by being with people, the introverts lose energy. The introverts have to spend equal time doing public ministry. So I find that very difficult because I am always surrounded with people. I mean even know it’s the same. I have to go to America to write. In the Philippines I can’t be alone. I am always surrounded with people, but that is our culture. And also Filipinos don’t like appointments, they just come. So I had to install my secretary right before the door. But even then, people still come without appointments. And of course, my instruction is that if they’re there, I have to see them. Because they will not understand if they have come and I won’t see them. It’s just not understandable in the culture. So I say even if it’s only for ten minutes, I will see them. But that means constant interruption. So if I need to do this sort of work I have to be away.

A/S: You talk a lot about the need to contextualize our faith because we’ve been looking for direction from probably the church of the west. How will you describe the development the Asian theology at the current moment?

M: Well, actually the gospel and culture is just begun in the churches in maybe late sixties early seventies or so, mostly from the world counselor’s churches. So you have some initial thinking on this and then it intensifies during the eighties. Because in 1974, you had the Rosanio, are you familiar with the Rosanio? (Sunny: No) Cause you are too young. In 1974, there was a conference organized by Billy Graham and John Stott among evangelical, who looked into world evangelical issues, so Rosanio produced a manifesto. And in that manifesto, it says that both social action and evangelism are part of our Christian duty. So it is the first time that is enshrined in an evangelical covenant. Although some people were unhappy with it, including me because I felt it was, it feels there is a gap between evangelical and social action. Whereas I felt that they are actually two sides of the same coin. It’s not as if, because to me those things are continuous, they are both dimensions of the gospel and to say certain things, certain propositions which we could whatever words you say. So to me it is a very artificial thing to compartmentalize evangelism and social action. But anyway, that was a minority covenant which was put by Lepatidia and his friends from Latin America, as a minority report but by large the Lasign covenant in 1974 was the major, well to many people, major evangelical statement on Christian mission defined as evangelism plus social action. And then, that I think that was transposed into a seminar papers prepared by, because they have a committee after a consigneo. There is this gospel and culture community, you know the social action track. In 1983, I went to that one. In another words, that was the first, I forget now the Christian response to human need, something like that, and that was in written in 1983 here and that was the beginning of the many organizations doing a holistic world. That’s when people started getting onboard the idea that our mission has to be holistic because it is much more in accordance with what people thought about witness, rather than the old covenant. At the end of the day when you have stuff like that, it’s just have to be through educative instrument, so you just have to keep educating people through advise forms and that’s how you develop a critical mass of people who eventually will go with you when you have to act.

A/S: So basically right now, should we say that the level of popularity of this idea of contextualization building a theology for Asia has reached or gained the critical mass?

M: I think so. I think there was a series of Rosanio paper on gospel and culture. Then there was a book that came out ‘down to earth’ something like that by Cott and John Stott. Those were born out of a series of paper and gospel of culture, and then conferences on that regard. I don’t know that there has been any move forward in that way. But that was the last time that they did something like that. They put together all the lectures in this conference, editing it, and much the same things. So that was the major framer for the document. So there is a great deal of thinking going on gospel and culture, particularly, by the way, WCC (World Council of Churches) is much more ahead than evangelism, even earlier than Rosanio. But my own think is that, it tends to be too liberal.

A/S: Related to this, I think the question that most of us are laity, not a clergy. Even among clergy, we know that they have different methods or approaches in trying to interpret the Bible. And then you also say about the need to become biblically literate. What will be your suggestion then for us to be biblical literate and what will be the best approach to understand aside from our attempt to actually being rooted in our cultural context also.

M: Well, I think it’s important to have both ears. One ear attuned to all the theological intellection that is being done. And the other is for you to listen carefully to your own culture also. Because sometimes you can get shape by what’s happening here in addressing your own issues here. Like for instance, this whole discussion of civil society. Everybody here talk about civil society when the truth is that in Asia, we have yet to develop a civil society because a civil society is within a framework and context of the West. So anyway the thing is, in another word you always have to understand that this concept, work with it only within certain context. In another word they have to be followed up on historical experience. That’s why the civil society is, in our countries are ineffective because you don’t have the right norms, the right cultural consensus behind it. The West has that, it’s about the culture and rule of law. Everybody obeys the law. There’s a culture of consensus about being fair and against hierarchy. Well, Asian society is very hierarchy so you always keep bowing down to the power. So in another word, you need to develop, what kind of culture that will allow that, and to be able to do that, you need to be very sensitive theologically as well as culturally. So you need what John Stott calls double listening. Or in my case, I think I needed to get myself theologically attuned at the same time. I think I learn my theology mainly from having to find answers to my own questions. I took my context, I have oldies. In another word, because I am sensitive, no matter what the theologian say. That’s it if it does not resonate with me, it means it’s not an issue to me. You know, this issue about, for instance, whether you should when you were uptight, you should have downturn whether you have to sprinkle them. I mean all this talk about freewill. I mean if you were Asian, you can put those together, those were not mutually exclusive. I use what Scheisser propose, thesis and anti-thesis thinking. Asians don’t think that way. The one thing does not necessarily cancel the other. That’s why you have the Yin and Yang. In another words, they are just a frame of mind. So that’s the way I feel it’s important to develop a theology which has come out of your hands-own experience of your own culture. That’s why, you know, in my early years, I refused to do theology because I feel I will get colonized all over again. My mind is already full of colonial thing. I was English major. That means, not just my language. But my imagination is in English language. So that’s bad. So I say I don’t like to do theology. I mean I will end up trying to answer questions my own people are not asking.

A/S: Let’s expand the question to broader issues. What do you think is or are the urgent important regional issues in South East Asia. What do you think at the current moment and probably in the next five, ten years?

M: Well, one is to do with globalization. As I guess the onslaught of global media, all the influences of McDonald’s. I think it is a major thing because if we don’t reflect about that, we will lose our identity because you’re dealing with very powerful global forces. So if we don’t deal with that, we will have continuing poverty and continuing dependency. So we need to think carefully about those issues. The other thing I think has to do with the fact that you have a resurgent of religion as a source of primal identity. You know, like that story that I have about one of our Muslim leaders saying I am not Philippines. I am Muslim. I am Malay because in South East Asia to be Malay is to be Muslim. Its identification is no longer with the nation state, but with the ethnic race. It’s upsetting because it happens to coincide with religion. Now I think people in Asia have to think more carefully about what it means to be multiple cultural in a global world. What it means to defend your religion or your own culture and that without at the same time, putting into motion a Jihad, you know. So I think that’s a major thing in Asia now. The fact is that we are vulnerable to religious wars because you know how political religion, highly political. And Islam has to do that to insert itself to political space. Those are important issues and all this talk about terrorism. In our context, because you know like in Indonesia, you have riot. Malaysia is very afraid of Muslim or ethnic riot. It’s good that Philippines do not have those things yet. But we might have that also. So, it’s important to think carefully about our religious tradition. How they shape our culture. What it means to defend them in the age of globalization, without getting into this Jihad sort of language. And I feel that the extremists of course, will always get encouragement from the fact that we continue to be poor countries.

A/S: With this regional issue in mind, are there any realistic and pursuable communication or dialogues and actions that we can pursue together. I mean us as FICA here and also the people in campuses, even with probably well, in trying to address that issue.

M: You mean what you can do as student?

A/S: Yes

M: I think it has to be then on two levels. One is to understand intellectually. What is happening? The other is, I think you have as much, cross-cultural exposure to each other. Because the fact is that in our society, you can live side by side and not really know each other. How many Indonesian Christians actually have Muslim friends? How many of us actually take to trouble to get to know people on the personal level. In another word, get out of our comfort zone. And many of us are afraid to do that whether you are in America or in the third-world societies. But that has to be done because something happens when people come face-to-face. That’s why you need conferences, because something happens when you are coming face-to-face, it is part of human being’s peculiarity. When you come together, I mean you may have read books, I mean when you come together something happens. And I think that’s you know in a verse from Joel, can two walk together unless they have met? There’s no way you can have peace. There’s no way you can walk together until you have met. Met face-to-face, not just in books, because books are, or any kind of media are secondary environment. In another word, it has constructed a picture for you which may or may not be true than when you actually see a person. So it’s important that we maximize cross-cultural exposure. As student you expose yourself as much as possible to Muslims. And also of course think of it on an intellectual level, both from a theological as well as Sociological side.

A/S: If I can at least summarize some of the suggestions for us would be that, just a summary, first of all, in the beginning or middle of our interview, you talk about how to be biblically literate and contextualize. And just now you also suggest for us to be able to see this urgent issues, both intellectually and also exposing ourselves to other people. With that in mind, how can we as a student, and as well as FICA, and ICF here, utilize our work with different groups in the regions. For example, ISAC, and there is a lot of group, I bet like ISAC. How we can work together?

M: Yes, there is a Cairo center in Malaysia. There is also one run by Koreans. We have a group of Japanese friends who are also thinking about the culture. There is also in Africa, the (archiorfy styler) or something like that. So you know there is a number of this thing. What you do is you just network with them and get some of the publication. But I think, if you are to say deal with issues like Islam and terrorism and so on, it’s always good to hear it from them themselves, the Muslim. Another word, you go beyond your space of comfort. And I think FICA should model that, should set an example of that. That’s what it means to cross-cultures all the time because that is what is needed at this time, especially Christians to do. We have to be able to live in the inter-spaces. We are not necessarily on the margin. We are in the inter-spaces; we are always on the outside looking in. But I just notice that about myself, I am always like that all the time. But maybe it is a good place to be in; that as Christian, we can only bridge all the differences if we are prepared to live in inter-spaces and hear people carefully so that we can have these initiatives and things like that. But FICA can facilitate that kind of cross-cultural exchange. You probably need to be, not just, Indonesia, it is good to have a good solid core of Indonesian community, but you need to also expose your community to other. And especially if most of you are going back anyway to Indonesia, you might as well have as much exposure to Muslim as much as possible, also the intellectuals. They have some very outstanding scholars. The one at Oxford is from the Middle East. And there is some who are already Christian who have a Muslim background like Nazir Ali, is Pakistanis. He is now bishop in some place in a young church in England. I think we need to have more focus discussion on your context in Indonesia. I think it’s good to have this kind of philosophical theological background, but I think it’s time for FICA to get down to the heart issues that it should face.

Sunny/Adrian: Thank you Dr. Melba

Melba: Thank you

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